090: Re-humanizing Healthcare with Dr Hannah Royster
Re-humanizing Healthcare
Dr Hannah Royster is a doctor on a mission to shine a light on the challenges faced by medical officers at all levels - after all burnout is not only a nursing phenomenon.
As a fellow high performer and staunch nursing advocate, Hannah's story is both inspiring and deeply worrying for the future of medicine.
Burnout is not exclusive to nursing and in this episode we seek to share a perspective, often unheard.
There are so many lessons from this episode that can be applied to ANY clinicians career.
Hannah is a proud author of "InTurn" a book she has published shining a light on what its like being a medical intern from a fictional perspective, based on her real life experiences.
I strongly advocate you purchase her book here! Please note this is not an affiliate link.
Please note, we talk about suicide in this episode. Please be warned.
If you need support/help you can contact: https://www.nmsupport.org.au
Key takeaways:
00:17 Meet Dr. Hannah Grace Royster
03:14 Navigating Adversity
05:57 Dr. Royster as an Intern
07:50 The Medical World Journey
15:29 Dealing with and Overcoming Burnout
21:50 Dr. Royster Shares Experience with Suicidal Acts in the Medical Field
26:28 Rehumanizing Nurses and Doctors
30:11 Introducing: In Turn by H. G Royster
34:23 Advise to Nurses in approaching doctors
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**This transcript was automatically generated using Descript.**
I think on the note of failing as an intern, there is just no space for you to fall into that experience because of how fast paced the medical culture is.
There's no room for you to process or wallow or get overly caught up in one failure because the whole force of the medical culture is just driving you to jump from the next task to the next task, to the next task. And in some way that's quite detrimental to our emotional wellbeing and state of health, but it also then keeps you driving and those things that you endure or feel responsible for, because we all have high expectations of ourselves and, when we make a little failure, it feels like the whole world, but it's just going so fast.
Hello and welcome back to the High Performance Nursing Podcast. I'm so excited that you are here today giving us your precious, precious time. We have a phenomenal guest, fellow colleague, fellow Australian, and medical colleague. Actually, I think you're our second doctor on the podcast, so we're super excited to chat to you.
Welcome Dr. Hannah Royster to the podcast. How are you?
I'm wonderful. Thank you so much
for having. Of course. I'm so excited to dive in. You guys are in for a treat today and I thought that we could explore. The side of healthcare that maybe we don't know so much about, even though we work so closely together.
So, before we dive in, let me tell you a bit about Hannah. Hannah grew up, remotely in far north Queensland. I haven't been up there yet. I'll need to get up there while I get back to Australia. Hannah overcame deafness, epilepsy and bring cancer to go on to find a passion for writing and medicine, despite all the challenges that Hannah.
You still did all the work and got into medicine in medical school and has recently published her fictionalized memoir about her Australian hospital internship titled intern, which until earlier I didn't quite get that, but then I got it. Hannah has worked across far enough Queensland as she did her internship up there.
She's done her psych reg, and she's sampled in her career, which I love. she took a gap year last year to write a book, which we'll be talking about today, and she's about to start GP training next week, which sounds like a hoot, , and I'm sure all of the other things as well. So, tell us, Hannah, as we dive in, tell us what got you into medicine.
Why did you choose to become a doctor? I think that's a good place to. .
Mm-hmm. . my complete and honest reason for getting into medicine and becoming a doctor is I had a crush on a boy and I put it down to impress him. . Love
that. I did not expect that.
Yeah. so after I come out of that phase of being like quite unwell and going through brain surgery and rehabilitation.
And having not been in school for most of primary school, started high school, failed every subject, and I just told myself at the time it was because I had a chunk of my brain missing and there was no way I would ever be one of those smart kids. And even though I worked really hard, it wasn't about the fact that I didn't try hard, it was about the fact that my brain was missing.
and that was really reassuring for 12, 13 year old me. And it gave me a little piece of peace. And then it wasn't until I was 15 that I got my first A, and that actually completely blew up that opinion I had of myself. So then I was like, oh, damn, I can actually do this. So I whack my butt off, push myself really hard, worked on those like personal bests academically, and that really built up my self confidence.
And because I was then high achieving, people started to put these different careers in front of my face, oh, be an engineer, be a lawyer, be a doctor because you are high achieving, so therefore you should be doing these things with your life. and at 15 16, what did I know? and the sister of this boy that I had a crush on was like, oh, you should become a doctor cause that'll really impress him.
And I was like, okay, it's good enough for me. , my career path was
born. I love that so much. Now the question on everybody's Lexus, is he still your boyfriend? No, not at all. , there you go. I love that. I've gotta say one thing that I have noticed in researching, your book and looking at your website and learning a bit more about you and listening to the amazing podcast you did with, our friend of the podcast, X is your amazing ability to take adversity and to kind of run through it and move towards a goal.
And, you know, probably in the moment, not thinking that's what you're doing, but talk us through. How you go through all of that and then still achieve what most people think is never possible, right? Most people have goals of becoming a doctor and they maybe don't make it happen, right? There's lots of people that don't make it happen.
But despite all of these kind of obstacles that you had, here you are, and it was there and you gave yourself permission to just go all in and give yourself the opportunity. What do you think that is?
Damn. Going deep right away. Ah, . I think I've always expected high things with myself, and therefore I've always pushed myself to get back on the horse.
Yeah, and I think because I have extremely high expectations of myself, I never accepted a sort of smaller version of my reality. Like I never was okay with being. the epileptic that would never drive a car or Yeah. Do any of those sort of things and then, you know, I guess I kept then stepping into new levels of myself and every time I stepped up, I then gained a new expectation.
And I think part of that was driven by like a level of insecurity and then, Once I grew in my sense of self, I became okay with where I was at, and then it became less about running away from something and more about moving towards something.
Yeah, I absolutely love that. And I think that there's a lesson there, right?
For everybody listening in, just trusting our own capacity to have in our life and a career regardless of what's going on. You know, the things that happen are there, I always think of my. burnout breakdown. And then I think, well, actually it was a breakthrough for me, right? it was a breakdown, but it was a breakthrough because I then saw more scope.
I was able to do more, and I could see where my skills lay. And I think that's something that really resonated. When I was reading through your website, I thought, oh my goodness. Wow. I talk a lot about quote unquote failure, resilience, fill your tolerance, in our careers Most people come against an obstacle and they go, nah, I can't
Right. And I think that in becoming a junior doctor, correct me if I'm wrong, that you kind of have to almost have that skill embedded in your psyche. Like you have to be somebody that's open to. very visibly failing, and pouring things and, you know, exploring and succeeding and failing and succeeding, and failing as we do as nurses.
But I'm curious what that experience was like for you because your sh, your ship shining a light on what it's like to be a medical intern. Right?, so talk your experience of being an intern.
Well, I think on the note of failing as an intern, there is just no space for you to fall into that experience because of how fast paced the medical culture is.
There's no room for you to kind of process or wallow or get overly caught up in one failure because the whole force of the medical culture is just driving you to jump from the next task to the next task, to the next task. And you know, in some way that's quite detrimental to our. Emotional wellbeing and state of health, but it also then keeps you driving and those things that you endure or feel responsible for, because we all have high expectations of ourselves and type A personalities and perfectionism and, when we make a little failure, it feels like the whole world, but it's just going so fast.
There's no room for you to kind of fall into that because you've gotta get through that day, ward rounds and those jobs to tick off and you've gotta get home so you can biologically recharge cause you've gotta be there at 6:00 AM the next day. And . then you're there every week and then you're probably there on the weekend as well.
And then the rotation goes by and then you're into the next one. And where do you have space to kind of fall into those feelings of, inadequacy or, I mean, certainly we carry them and we carry that sense of imposter syndrome. , but there's not really space for you to A process that or B over-indulge it. Yeah. Wow. And I'm guessing, sensing from the way that you're speaking, that there's no kind of discussion about that, there's no, conversations that happen that say, Hey, these are some of the things that you will experience or you set up. To just kind of like experience that and you've just gotta navigate your own way.
What does that look like in the medical world? Because in nursing, it's very similar. we just become nurses and no one talks to us about the emotional impact of the job, the stress, the worry, the fear, the imposter syndrome, the lack of confidence. How do you talk to a doctor? None of that stuff is covered
we're just kinda like expected to get on with it. And then of course we have hemorrhaging staff now because we're not caring for the individual, we're not caring for the human that's nursing or the human. That's a doctor.
Absolutely. And from a junior doctor perspective, I think you get such little exposure to your regs and even less exposure to your consultants and you will meet them for the first time on your first day. And the important things to you in that moment are, how do I do this job? What do you want from me? What are your expectations? What tick boxes do I need? You know that it's about bloods and style of notes and imaging orders and which theater to send the guy to.
And even then there's not enough room for that cuz they're busy and there's a lot on their plate and. A good registrar might sit down with his interns at the end of their first day because that's the only space there is and say, Hey, this is what the week's gonna look like and this is what I want from you, but you're only there for 10 weeks.
So there's not a whole lot of space in that for you to build rapport with that person and feel safe to go to them with those sort of things. Trigger you or don't sit comfortably with you, or you felt the heaviness of that patient crash or whatever it was. And then amongst other juniors, I think it comes out in humor.
Like people make jokes about how crazy a day has been or how horrible something is, and that's the only way we've been modeled how to express not being okay. Or to share. Kind of the overwhelming nature of what we do everyday.
Yeah, I can deeply resonate with that. I think that in the nursing world we use the word busy and I'll kind of joke about with that word cause I'm like, oh, and I've never really thought about it until you just said that there, that busy is an ex, possibly an expression of them just being like, you know, I don't know how else to explain or connect with the feeling that I'm feeling right now.
I am just busy is the only word that I have access to cause it's just absolutely mental and I don't know how else to express this. that's really interesting cuz I had a bit of a joke with my team on, my last ward where I said busy was banned. , the word busy was banned almost.
Cause it was like, well it feels so heavy, right? When we say busy, like it just. feel great when you think, oh, I'm so busy that I can't do X, Y, and Z. I'm a bit of a reframe, but that gives me a new way of thinking about it. Thank you for sharing that. , I'm curious about your experience like cause I've worked with doctors, you know, across all different specialties and it wasn't probably until the last year of my clinical practice as a nurse unit manager, where I worked in a subacute rehab ward where it was a little slower pace, but it was still busy for the medical team.
That I kind of started to build more connection and rapport with the doctors there and got to see a couple of registrars come through that were amazing, right? They really supported their juniors and it made such an impact, not only just for. The interns, but for the patients, for the families, for the country, for my job as an nurse student manager, like I think we often forget that there's a connection, right?
Between everything that we do. We all either compound it in a positive or a negative way. What are some of the challenges that you experienced as an intern, or that you've seen through your years that you think would surprise us nurses that maybe we're not fully aware?
I think one of my biggest fears in my first week, starting as a baby tern was I love that term , how I was gonna get treated by the nurses.
Like I was genuinely afraid of them. I was afraid that I'd do it wrong or get yelled at, or I wouldn't understand, or I, you know, imposter syndrome coming through, embarrass myself or not know the answers. But I think once I actually. Got into the role, I realized that they're actually such a massive resource for junior doctors, especially when you're brand new on a rotation because Nurses they've worked on that ward for 10, 20 years and they know the ins and outs and they know what's expected of the junior doctors, and they've seen them come and go and like for the most part, Junior doctors in Australia, we go straight into medicine out of high school and you know, we pop out like 23, 24 year olds and where they're making these big decisions and your registrar's there with you for ward rounds and then they piss off the ward and it's just you managing all these patients who are actively dying and that's terrifying.
And sometimes it's just you are the only junior on your team. And having, even just having that familiar face of a nurse who you can likesmile at it in the morning and nod at on your way past as you're doing that cannula, I think makes a world of a difference. And I think once I started to invest in building almost like a friendship with the nursing staff, as soon as I hit the wards, that really saved me so many times.
Yeah, we're not a bad bunch, you know, we try , you're really not. It's funny cause there are some nurses that even as an artist, I'm like, oh, holy moly, I'm staying away from you. Like you scare the shit outta me. but usually, you know, it's,hard exterior and it's soft and fluffy interior and, totally open to it.
Right. But I love that you mentioned that, like that connection and the rapport with nursing staff. Cause I think often we feel like, you know, there's a nursing industry narrative that we are less than and we are, you know, we're not as good as doctors. We only do three years and we should have more, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
. And you know, that makes us feel like insignificant, especially, there's a lot of discussion around enrolled nurses and registered nurses in Australia, like with the medical associated, like there's lots of things that happen there. we won't dive into that today, but, what do you think nurses could be doing?
What could we do more to support junior doctors or doctors in general? I think
probably one of my better done terms. I had this very. loving and nurturing nurse unit manager who would come into the junior doctor office and check in every once in a while. And you know, she learned all of our names on the first day and she would occasionally bring round boxes of chocolates and she'd check in and she knew the reputations of all the consultants.
So she's oh, you've got that one nudge nudge. And so she really. Humanized our experiences and she was very much someone that I felt like I could go to right from the start. Because yes, you might have that consultant or that registrar that's prickly ours and having, you know, the numb that I could go to and kind of be like, oh, did you see that?
Just, you know, it got you. Yeah,
like humanizes a process, right? Because sometimes you are just like, did they just say that and then leave and I not give any plan. or remember like doctor's heads just peek into my office being like, Liam, what the hell? what we, why can't we not get this patient out of the hospital?
I'm like, I know they shouldn't done three weeks ago. Why are we keeping them here? so can totally relate to that. That's hilarious. Tell us more about your barn act. You mentioned that at the start, right? You've been through Barn Act. I think Boad is you know, I think everybody's adding it to the resume, like cuz it's the reality like that is just the global reality of healthcare right now.
Given what we've gone through over the last few years. What was burnout like for you as a doctor? It already sounds like looking from the outside look, looking into medicine. From a,nursing perspective, I'm like, oh my goodness, how do you guys even do it? I genuinely think that we're busy and we've got all of the things to do, but I think that it's a next level experience.
so tell us about your experience at burn out as a doc. It's interesting you should say that cause it's actually a nest that validated for me, like the junior doctor experience. Cause I think you. Have your little observer seat that's behind your nurse's station and you watch us like running from one end of the ward to the other between wards.
And it was a nurse who said off, I wouldn't want your job. And really likevalidated for me what I was going through and how like huge that expectation was because you know, I was carrying the same expectation. as all the other juniors and all the residents and the registrars and the consultants.
They'd been through my experience all worse. Like maybe better, but probably worse. Worse in my mind. And you know, they were still here in standing. So I think it took me a long time to be okay with the fact I needed to take space for medicine. And I think I pushed myself to ignore that. because I was very focused on everybody else and not actually listening to what was going on for myself.
And writing this novel was a really beautiful excuse cause it allowed me to A, do something I love. But B, take this year off and say, I'm gonna give the whole year, write this novel. And it's kind of like, I used that as like my ticket out of there. Cause it's like I'm not quitting, I'm just gonna be over here for a little while.
Yeah. And I think. In medical school, there is not enough time for you to look up and really notice what you're getting into when you do those clinical placements because you know you are worried about exams and you're just finding your feet. And you know, the stressful thing is working out how to talk to patients, let alone having space to kind of look around and observe what other junior doctors are doing.
And it wasn't until towards the end of my final year in medicine that I started. Actually ask the other interns and the other junior doctors what, I was walking into, because I started to really pick up on this recurrent humor around the negative aspects of medical culture. And you know, we used to joke oh, It'll get better and stuff.
And then people are like, oh no it won't. And you know, everyone laughed about it and it was kind of like this commonly thrown around joke and I was like, geez, I'm hearing this all the time about haha, how terrible this job is. And when I started to talk people about it, they were like, oh yeah, no, it ain't great.
Wouldn't recommend medicine to. But, you know, I'd already done this degree. I'd invested six years to get there, and so I decided I'd give internship a go. So I did term after term and I just kind of took it day by day. And I think in that time you are a glorified secretary, but you're also expected to manage a resource at the drop of a hat and.
you know, it's not a great year, gotta be honest. I mean, I'm sure some people have had a great year in their internship, but there are definitely hard times and you know, it's a big ordeal. And then you go into your residency and then your registrar years and the race is so fast and you're quite, you know, you're stuck on the hamster wheel and there's not really.
any opportunity for you to kind of like sidestep and you don't really hear about people taking time off unless you manage to bump into a locum and then they're like, oh yeah, this is the great life. , but you know, unless they cross your path or you have around you is what you think there is. And that's, you know, people in the slog who have done it from day dot and kept going.
you have to be pretty intentional about inquiring to find those other paths.
Yeah. It sounds very similar to nursing, right? Like it's very similar process in the sense that you have to get super curious about what's possible in your career. No one's kind of openly sharing you what you could do.
It's like you work in the hospital or you, what else do you, do? there's such limited kind of thought processes around what's possible nursing careers. But I just want to go back to that idea of, for everybody listening. You're 23, 24, you're on awards. Everybody's looking at you and you're running a recess.
And the reg is quote unquote on their way. Probably at Zuki finishing their class on maybe. Right. And the consultant, we can't get them on the phone. Oh my goodness. I feel that pressure in my body right now, like I feel that I've got sweaty palms that I can't even deal. that clearly it's evident that most people are not set up for that from a psychological standpoint.
Right? you might have the tangible skills, you might know your, ELAs back to front and you know, all of the things. But that is terrifying. So terrifying. Yep. Yeah. For you guys listening that are not watching this, we're both like just staring at each other, nodding our heads, being like, yeah, oh my God, I can't, I need a moment.
I think after that, but I think that what it does as a nurse is it gives us perspective. When we're in those moments, right? Because we do have high expectations of the doctors that are there. Cause we're also nine times outta 10, have skill gaps. I e we haven't been sent on that course yet. Cause we can never get away from the wards.
So we haven't done the thing right. and then we're like looking to the people around us and we have a bit of a culture of just promoting people for the sake of promoting them in nursing, you know, not because they're so great and because they've been there for 20 years, which, you know, works sometimes, but most times it's not the right fit.
so then we have people that have de-skilled and all of the things. So you can see why, you can see why all of the Swiss cheese halls align and we have these incidents with our patients. and the culture that we have today, it's, yeah. , it's bigger than Ben Ho. Right. for us to be able to tackle that and explore.
Okay. So you mentioned this on your website and I'm sure you talk about this, in the book, but you talked about, being in medical school and a couple of Your colleagues committing suicide. and talk to me about that experience for you.
Cause I've had a similar experience in nursing, not close colleagues, but I've known people in my hospital that have decided to take their own life because of, different circumstances, bullying and harassment in nursing. talk to me about that
experience for you. Well, obviously so many elements there, but certainly, my character reflects a little bit on this in the novel, that sense of vulnerability because you know, they are, you essentially, they are a carbon copy of a junior doctor.
They're, an intern and, had you picked a different straw out of the heart for a different rotation, you might have had the exact scenario that they had, which. , may or may not been the final brick leading to them deciding to end their life. And that makes you feel very vulnerable in a system that is designed to support you, but you already feel so unsupported by it because you've already had your own experiences or you've heard of other people's experiences.
unpleasant, inappropriate things have happened to them and they've tried to seek help and they've been brushed off. And certainly I've had my own versions of those experiences and, I would consider myself very well supported from family and friends and colleagues and, you know, is an eye opener.
And also this person who did commit suicide. , I didn't see it coming. . And I think as doctors we are very good at masks. We're very good at keeping it all together cause that's what we're taught. We're taught to not carry around that heavy patient case. We're taught to leave it at home. We're taught to, put our personal stuff aside for the job and then we also do it for each other.
and I think also, It's very difficult to admit that you are not okay or that things are hard because nobody else around you admits that as a junior doctor in, this high comparison, high expectation environment where everyone's running a thousand miles to get to that next step of the ladder so that they can keep going because the expectations are always moving.
You know, you might be average Joe or average Jane who popped themselves out of medical school and was like, whew, that was a lot of hard work. But I'm here. And then the person next to you's like,oh yeah, I just finished my PhD and I'm running a charity, and I'm, oh yeah, doing a marathon next weekend.
Wanna come? And you're like,
Surrounded by high performers that are all trying to do, you know, do themselves and each other. yeah. it's so interesting that you talk about the masking, right? And that, that lack of vulnerability. And it's so interesting because we kind of almost every day command vulnerability from our patients, right?
Like,we want them to open up, and it's interesting. I wonder, I do get curious sometimes about How much quicker we could solve problems in healthcare if we ourselves embraced vulnerability and openness as a clinician. Right. And didn't have that mask on and didn't have that.
I'm the doctor, you know, some consultant's like I'm the consultant and I'm here and I need to be this power figure. as you were talking there, I'm like, no, we need to like Rehumanize Healthcare. , that's what we need to do. Cuz we're kind of like become so task focused, so task orientated that we kind of all kind of almost forgot, right?
Like why we chose to do what we do. absolutely. because we love our patients and we love caring for people and gifting and giving. but we're just so reluctant to give ourselves permission to be vulnerable. It's so interesting. That's why I love all of Brene Brown's work, and that's why I love coaching and all of that because it just allows us to check back in, right?
And be like, hold on a minute, I've been a nurse for 12 years and I'm burnout Why is that? It's because I'm out of touch with the humanness that is me, and I'm just on this wheel of I need to be there. I need to be the DI director of nursing. who says ? Right? Like I think people, everybody listening you give yourself permission to do what Hannah did beautifully, which is I'm gonna take a year because I get to decide and I work 90,000 hours of my life and I'm gonna make sure mm-hmm.that it serves me and that it's,
how do you think we could rehumanize nursing and medicine? . Big question, . I just saw it out there. How could we rehumanize it? I think that element of making friends with each other, or at least certainly that helped with me, you know, making friends with my colleagues or the other nurses.
it breaks down those barriers. And then it's not about the job, it's about, that kid's birthday party and then the job, or you know, maybe it's about the job and then the kid's birthday party. But you know, there's that. Then there's that human in it and you know when you're going to work, you've got those relationships or those dynamics that you can build on and it really, it breaks it all up.
And I think, yeah, you know, we're,community driven beings. and we've lost so much of that just in like our own Western culture with technology and social media. And I think if we can gain that in the workplace, that just takes that small slice of pressure, pie off of your shoulder. And it might help the situation a little.
Yeah, I think that it's the missing piece. I think that for the nursing industry, you know, I can only speak from my experience that we really need to invest in, building better connection with each other, and building better rapport so that we can, support each other in those moments.
And I think it's so rare to see I'm curious if you've seen this, not that it's a measure of vulnerability, but you know, like a no student manager or a director of nursing or a consultant. Be visibly emotional or like just be the human that they are. Right. Because I think we so often take the patient down to the mortuary and we just move on to the next task.
Cuz if it was just like, went to Kohls and we bought , there was no bananas, so we bought apples instead. And we're so flippant about it, like it's so just weird, isn't it? And it just doesn't allow us to process and sit with that and experience the human experience in that moment. and we just move straight onto the next thing.
Have you experienced a lot of that in medicine? Have you seen a lot of vulnerability across your, internships? very small amounts. I think, and they are all my favorite consultants that I've ever worked with who have been able to give that to me. And, you know, maybe they haven't cried in front of me, but they've validated the way, you know.
Observing a loss or being part of a patient loss would make you feel as a general human being, let 'em learn. The clinician that's worked with them for six weeks and has tried to get them somewhere and build relationships with their family, and certainly I've had bosses and registrars who have allowed space for that, but in the same sense, I've also, Had supervisors, registrars, consultants who weren't there at all or brushed it off or made me feel strange or weird for bringing it up or making a comment or having an emotion.
So interesting, isn't it? It's as easy as like,I see that this is really difficult. Recall. You know, it's as easy as one sentence that I see you, I feel your pain right now and think this is really.
Stop . it's just like, why can we not offer this to ourselves? , I'm so glad that you're doing this work and in publishing the book and, you know, you've take that, you've taken this time to give this to future interns, right? And future baby turns. what a beautiful offering to the medical world and for us nurses as well to come and read and explore.
So tell us more about the book. Tell us more about intern and, all the things.
Well, it started out as just me sort of doing it for my own mission to get me through the day and get me through my own internship, because during my surgical rotation I would. Have these experiences and I think these are more unbelievable than any fiction that I could imagine in my mind.
Like I never imagined I would be in these scenarios. Like I'd never imagined someone would speak to me in that way and nobody else would react. And I never imagined that those kind of things would be spoken to me. And I never imagined that I would see these things and I never imagined I would be in the these scenarios.
Like I thought these scenarios were supposed to have gone out of fashion in 1960, but here we are today. And so I started to write about them, a, to process them for myself, but also because it kind of. Gave me that observer seat in my day-to-day because I thought, you know what? This experience is really shit, but it's great content and I'm gonna write about it one day.
and Sarah, you can keep speaking to me in that really disregarding manner, sir, but you know what? You're gonna come up as a fictionalized character. And so
yeah, so it really got me through and then it wasn't until. A colleague suicide that I actually thought I could do something with this and this could be like my way of having an impact. Because a few of my friends, they were like running sit ups for mental health and you know, putting on lunches and, you know, everyone was like, well, what can we do?
This was my way, this is what I could do. I'm a writer. I published a book. and you know, even if one junior doctor reads it out there or nurse and thinks, oh damn, I felt I imposter syndrome, and oh this is bringing up memories and hey, this character, you know, is going through the same things that I'm going through cuz those are my processes, that's my real experience.
And just to know that somebody else in the world, you know, went through something similar and got through the other side, that's so that's why I decided to turn it into a book and.
That's incredible. from a career coaching perspective, I'm just like nurses that are listening much value in knowing your strengths and knowing what lights you up, right?
Because it becomes your career. Super power becomes the thing that you lean into, that you run with and you know, through diversity and the traumas that we go through and all of the things. , there is something beautiful in creating something that you know you can offer back to the world. And we all have our own unique way of doing that.
And many people that I talk to that might be listening think, oh, I'm just a nurse. You know that dreaded line, I'm just a nurse,dot. But you're not just a nurse. Maybe you love theater, maybe you love writing, maybe you love sport. And you can use all of that to convey a message to people should you want to have an impact in your own.
unique Beautiful. way I absolutely love that so much. So I cannot wait to get a copy of this book. I'm getting it straight after this interview. tell us about how we can get our hands on it.
So it's currently only available on Amazon and you should be able to get it on any Amazon platform. If you just look up intern two words, I N T U R N H G Roy.
or if you find my social media, the links will be there. My Instagram is hg dot royster, or my Facebook is Hannah Grace
Royce. Amazing. That is so good. So I will pop all of that in the show notes, and you're all compelled , all 40,000 listeners of you, . Thank you. All of you. I get this, a copy of this book.
awesome. We, we love, you know, connecting and supporting, other healthcare professionals in pursuit of, especially something that is so, important and so close to us. you know, anybody that's listening, that's a nurse that Ava. There's a good idea for you for a nursing version of this kind of book, right?
cuz we just don't hear it, see it. I love that so much. So we'll pop all of that in the bottom there. Now I love to finish podcasts with a bit of a rapid fire, bit of fun, to lighten it up as we leave. I've got a couple of questions for you as we wrap up. what would be your best piece of advice for nurses approaching doctors?
Because we have lots of students in grads that listen to this and it's one of their biggest.
Ooh, really? Okay. I've certainly observed the dickhead, egotistic, sorry, am I gonna swear on
podcast please?
the junior doctor, usually male, could be honest. Yep. Full of himself. Who just thinks he's all out in a bag of chips or she, and, you know, Not necessarily polite or appropriate. So look, I feel you guys, I'm really sorry if that's been your experience. For me personally, I bloody loved it when a nurse was like, Hey, don't mean to stand on your toes, but Yeah, you wanna, you just take a look over there or Hey, this is what we normally do, or I noticed you prescribed this.
Did you wanna maybe look at this one? honestly, save my life. I love you all. I appreciate it so much. And I think if you, I think it comes back to the human behind it all. You know, if you take yourself off of the ego sea with the hard shell and you just approach with a degree. Humanity and as a humble being and just be like, you know, we're all trying to gain the same thing here.
We all wanna get through the day and come out as whole as possible after a shift and maybe save a few lives or along the way. Then I think it takes the pressure off. And I think that as a, a young human being, being approached in that way is so much easier to navigate than. A force that comes at you with like demands.
Yeah. And telling you how it needs
to be. Totally, I agree. And I've experienced that on the medical side, right? Where there's been a reg that walks into my office and is like,I'm in the middle of a meeting, right? And they open the door and they're like, this needs to be done now.
And I'm like, no, out, . I'm in the middle of something. You know, deal with it yourself. but I hear you and I think I always teach, you know, students in grads, like, just be curious. Just be like, oh, did you mean to prescribe, you know, triple the amount of Panadol this morning, just be super cur.
you know, I'm just curious. and that always use, there's a nice little segue into it and you know, doctors wanna be asked questions like you said you want to pick up on the things that potentially might not be going right. so Love that. What's been your favorite specialty so far?
Oof. I mean, after I got over the crush of the boy, I thought I'd wanna be a doctor because I really did enjoy pediatrics. But then once I actually got into the specialty, it was all a little bit too heavy. So then I kind of gave that up and then I thought I'd do psychiatry and I did enjoy that, but it was also very heavy and it's a long road.
So then I ditched that and so now I'm gonna try GP out, but I. , it's not about the specialty. For me, it's always been about the team that I worked with. and like I've had horrible bosses in psychiatry and I've had wonderful bosses in psychiatry and it's not about psychiatry, it's about the team that I worked with.
And so my favorite rotations in internship have got to be the ones that I had and awesome team with an awesome consultant who, you know, humanized your day. Took you out for dinner, like indulged the human being that you are outside of the tick boxes and the ward jobs and the medical life.
I love that so much.
Yeah. Beautifully said. if you could change one thing to date in medicine, what would it be? Just one thing.
Oh, just one? just one.
It's a big ask.
Trying to think of something really generic, like the weight of it.
or, yeah, cuz it's all the little things, isn't it? It's like the crazy hours and the high expectations and the heavy patient cases and then the gross demoralization. . yeah,
I think it sounds like support, to me the one word like kind of just sounds like support across all aspects.
It's the same in nursing. Yeah. Like,it's what should we change today? We should just start giving each other support, especially from the , I dunno. Yeah, that's what I, that's a big one. Yeah. they usually does come from bottom. Right. Yeah. totally. and final question. What is your big 2023?
Impossible. We talk about impossible goals on this podcast cause it's oh my God, it's such a huge goal. It kind of feels a little like,ugh. what would that be for you this year?
It would be to a hundred percent see my novel as a New York Times bestseller and see it converted into your Netflix.
Oh
my goodness. I just got chills. I love that. that is kick ass quote. Impossible goal. Totally possible. oh my god. That's incredible. Well, you know, when you're big in like you're famous and celebrity author, all of the things, just remember us here at a high performance. I love that so much.
No. thank you so much for coming on today, sharing your story. I think it's so powerful for us to hear the other side. I think that we could do more work day to day and sharing our stories. Because we do have very similar lived experiences. but thank you. and please go and follow Hannah.
Go to the website, get the book. It will be linked there. I'll share it all on social media. and check in and message her and let her know how you find the book. And engage. so, so important, especially when you put something out the world, right? It's kinda like your baby. You're like, oh, I'm offering it to the world.
I hope you guys like it. I'm sure it's fabulous. thank you. A very vulnerable story and I would really, so love to hear from people who've read it and how it made them feel, or what it brought up for them, honestly, that. is what keeps me going. since I published the novel and all the insecurities that come up with putting out your, even though it's fictionalized, it's still, you know, my story and having people come back and say, Hey, thanks for this.
it has made my world totally.
Well, it's such a beautiful demonstration of the vulnerability that we're lacking by like,it's such a beautiful way of just demonstrating that. And leading by example, which we're all for here at high Performance. So thank you so much. until next time, everybody, stay safe and stay forever curious and we will see you in the next episode.
Thanks, Hannah!
